Author Topic: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)  (Read 873 times)

Offline fizz

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2017, 07:26:PM »
--HERE LIE SPOILERS--

So Rachel is a prototype, not defined as a Nexus 6. Therefore it is likely she had an open-ended lifespan.

How true did that turn out!


I'm still processing, but my initial reaction is that I like it very much! It isn't flawless, the most obvious one being what fizz mentioned about the score. And I have a few questions about what happens that I want to think about.

But this is as good a Blade Runner I think anyone could have ever hoped for. By going for a much bigger scale, visually and in-story implications, the film not just re-emphasizes the primary question of the original (what really is to be human) but also adds the variables of evolution & identity. I also absolutely LOVED how this movie uses the same religious parallels of creator-creation like the original did.

More when I have thought about it more (which will lead to more details to stand out), but for now, what a fantastic addition (and implications due) to the Origami collection: A sheep!  =D>

The score isn't the best, but man, that re-use of Tears in the Rain right at the end...wow. Total goosebump moment.

I like what you say about the religious parallels. This is such a recent Ridley Scott move, from Prometheus to Alien: Covenant.

Also, true of the focus on industrialists with macabre intent - Tyrell, Weyland and now Wallace.

Yeah, that origami was great, but...what did it mean?
Narrative is the poison of cinema...There's nothing more beautiful than elusiveness in cinema.

Offline shariqq

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2017, 07:50:PM »
Questions about the reality of our memories replace those of dreams while the concerns of holographic companions replace the concerns of Replicants.

That's one of the things I'm not totally convinced about yet -- the holographic love interest.
Yes, she serves a purpose (their dialogues provide exposition), and her eventual loss and K's realization of "Joe" leads to introspection. But making it a major part of K's character line, perhaps would've worked better if we saw how much he depended on her for his "emotional" support, say a Her-lite (a few moments would be nice).
But this can also be because the main scene where they connect -- a sex scene -- was censored. As an audience member, being denied experiencing their connection could be why I didn't feel their disconnection so much.

In fact, that reminds me, Wallace's attitude of disposable slaves and its effect on Luv (and generally the attitude towards skinjobs) will also be a richer experience once we watch the uncensored version.
Do you know what the scariest thing is? To not know your place in this world, to not know why you're here. That's - that's just an awful feeling. -- Elijah Price,  Unbreakable (2000)

Offline shariqq

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2017, 07:52:PM »
Yeah, that origami was great, but...what did it mean?

The two meanings I read to it:
1) Gaff is calling K a sheep, similar to how he called Deckard a chicken. K is following orders without thinking, etc...
2) The second is more an Easter Egg: as we all know, stories are based on "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep". Well, Sheep :)
Do you know what the scariest thing is? To not know your place in this world, to not know why you're here. That's - that's just an awful feeling. -- Elijah Price,  Unbreakable (2000)

Offline shariqq

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2017, 07:57:PM »
The score isn't the best, but man, that re-use of Tears in the Rain right at the end...wow. Total goosebump moment.

I'll go as far as to say that this is Zimmer's laziest work. He goes all percussions and fog-horn blasts. Fog-Horns are what his copycats and wannabe blockbusters are now doing.
Percussions, no... this should've been more electronica (like the original). Maybe Daft Punk could've done it better -- their track in the Arena in Tron Legacy was perfect.

Tears in the Rain, and each time any of the original motifs were used, was absolutely amazing. Lovely, lovely end (to K).
Do you know what the scariest thing is? To not know your place in this world, to not know why you're here. That's - that's just an awful feeling. -- Elijah Price,  Unbreakable (2000)

Offline fizz

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2017, 08:28:PM »
Questions about the reality of our memories replace those of dreams while the concerns of holographic companions replace the concerns of Replicants.

That's one of the things I'm not totally convinced about yet -- the holographic love interest.
Yes, she serves a purpose (their dialogues provide exposition), and her eventual loss and K's realization of "Joe" leads to introspection. But making it a major part of K's character line, perhaps would've worked better if we saw how much he depended on her for his "emotional" support, say a Her-lite (a few moments would be nice).
But this can also be because the main scene where they connect -- a sex scene -- was censored. As an audience member, being denied experiencing their connection could be why I didn't feel their disconnection so much.

In fact, that reminds me, Wallace's attitude of disposable slaves and its effect on Luv (and generally the attitude towards skinjobs) will also be a richer experience once we watch the uncensored version.

To me it was important and it worked. Since we know right from the start that K is a Replicant, the only thing that makes him connect to humans is love. Procreation, when all other lines are blurred, is one of the many things that differentiates us from machines. Since K is a Replicant his only chance at companionship is Joi. This is established early on. The sex scene being censored was annoying but didn't matter. What mattered is that we knew Joi used a real person (the scene where they "merge" to form a whole person, part physical, part emotional, was one of the audacious things about the film that I loved) to give K what he needed - a physical manifestation of her love.

What was more fascinating to me was whether Joi was this way because she was programmed or whether she became this way as part of her machine learning process. The film never answers this but establishes enough of these moments to let us ponder about them. Once Joi was "killed", coupled with K/Joe discovering he did not have a real childhood, like he had started to believe, meant, the only way to achieve the ultimate state of being human was to sacrifice himself (which is implied by the end) to a cause.
Narrative is the poison of cinema...There's nothing more beautiful than elusiveness in cinema.

Offline fizz

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2017, 08:29:PM »
Yeah, that origami was great, but...what did it mean?

The two meanings I read to it:
1) Gaff is calling K a sheep, similar to how he called Deckard a chicken. K is following orders without thinking, etc...
2) The second is more an Easter Egg: as we all know, stories are based on "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep". Well, Sheep :)

All good points. I did not think of these while watching. It was such a blink and miss moment.
Narrative is the poison of cinema...There's nothing more beautiful than elusiveness in cinema.

Offline fizz

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2017, 08:35:PM »
The score isn't the best, but man, that re-use of Tears in the Rain right at the end...wow. Total goosebump moment.

I'll go as far as to say that this is Zimmer's laziest work. He goes all percussions and fog-horn blasts. Fog-Horns are what his copycats and wannabe blockbusters are now doing.
Percussions, no... this should've been more electronica (like the original). Maybe Daft Punk could've done it better -- their track in the Arena in Tron Legacy was perfect.

Tears in the Rain, and each time any of the original motifs were used, was absolutely amazing. Lovely, lovely end (to K).

Yes, it wasn't a good score. But this was a salvage operation after Johan left/was made to leave (we'll never know since he was made to sign a non-disclosure about this) 3 months before release. It is as lazy as a last minute copied homework assignment, because really, that's what it was. The cues that were homages to the original have nothing to do with Zimmer's capabilities. Anyone, literally, anyone, could have done it. There is one scene which uses a wonderful variation of the Vangelis theme (in the film it happens when K flies his spinner high above LA on the way to the orphanage, on the soundtrack it is the track called "Mesa") which gave the visuals a profound effect. I wish more of that wonderful score was used throughout the film.
Narrative is the poison of cinema...There's nothing more beautiful than elusiveness in cinema.

Offline fizz

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2017, 08:36:PM »
The particular score that I was referring to:

Narrative is the poison of cinema...There's nothing more beautiful than elusiveness in cinema.

Offline shariqq

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2017, 12:17:AM »
Ok, questions. The most important one I had as soon as the movie got over, and couldn't answer: Why does K have that real memory if it is illegal? Why was he special enough to be given that real memory?
Do you know what the scariest thing is? To not know your place in this world, to not know why you're here. That's - that's just an awful feeling. -- Elijah Price,  Unbreakable (2000)

Offline fizz

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2017, 12:44:AM »
Ok, questions. The most important one I had as soon as the movie got over, and couldn't answer: Why does K have that real memory if it is illegal? Why was he special enough to be given that real memory?

I had the same question. What I think is this. Ana, as the memory maker for Replicants probably ended up adding bits of her real memory anyway (despite this being illegal). I mean, how would anyone find out right? Especially since she referred to what she did as art - an artist is always creating form what he/she knows.

There are other implications. Ana, assuming she was in league with the Replicant resistance, would have added this memory to other replicants as well, not just K. This would make them all think (at one point) that they were special (born, not made), until they realised they weren't, probably as a way for the resistance to gather willing recruits. I found this angle quite fascinating - we all think we are special; when we are growing up, when we first develop a conscious. We think the world is structured around us. We think therefore we are, only to realise this isn't true. A bit like how K felt when the truth was revealed to him.
Narrative is the poison of cinema...There's nothing more beautiful than elusiveness in cinema.

Offline shariqq

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2017, 12:54:AM »
I like this answer, that other replicants had the same memory. It ties in to what the one-eyed woman says. And how quickly she guess that K thought he was the one. The others in her army probably had the same "awakening".

It also explains why Ana was so quick in stating that it was illegal to give real memories.

As Villeneuve said about Enemy too -- all the answers are there.
Do you know what the scariest thing is? To not know your place in this world, to not know why you're here. That's - that's just an awful feeling. -- Elijah Price,  Unbreakable (2000)

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2017, 10:27:AM »
I woke up thinking about the beach fight. Arrival and Silence also had that effect. Where I wake up the next morning thinking about a sequence from the movie I watched.
I'm loving this movie.
Do you know what the scariest thing is? To not know your place in this world, to not know why you're here. That's - that's just an awful feeling. -- Elijah Price,  Unbreakable (2000)

Offline fizz

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2017, 11:19:AM »
I woke up thinking about the beach fight. Arrival and Silence also had that effect. Where I wake up the next morning thinking about a sequence from the movie I watched.
I'm loving this movie.

Thank God for small-scale conclusions. No giant spaceship falling from the sky (Prometheus) or a portion of the Earth breaking up (Age of Ultron). Just 2 people at odds with each other fighting it out. You don't expect that from a big budget, major studio release anymore.
Narrative is the poison of cinema...There's nothing more beautiful than elusiveness in cinema.

Offline shariqq

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2017, 02:58:PM »
Villeneuve provides commentary on one particular scene in the movie.

Do you know what the scariest thing is? To not know your place in this world, to not know why you're here. That's - that's just an awful feeling. -- Elijah Price,  Unbreakable (2000)

Offline fizz

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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Dennis Villeneuve, 2017)
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2017, 03:51:PM »
Nice...that makes me miss DVD's with director commentaries!
Narrative is the poison of cinema...There's nothing more beautiful than elusiveness in cinema.